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the German economy, take the Jews out of the economy, put them

into the debt register and pension them of, alas we only made very fine plans,

which were then only pursued very slowly. Then we had a demonstration here in

Berlin. Then the people were told: something decisive is going to happen. But

again nothing happened. Now we have had this thing in Paris. After it came more

demonstrations, and now something must happen!’

But, Goering went on, ‘I have had enough of these demonstrations. They

damage not the Jews, but ultimately me, since I am finally responsible for the

economy.’

As for ‘Aryanization’, Goering elaborated, the ‘basic idea’ was this: ‘The Jew is

excluded from the economy and signs over his business to the state. He receives

compensation for it. This compensation is recorded in the debt register and

interest is paid at a particular percentage. That is what he has to live on.’

After Goering had explained further details of the Aryanization process, Heydrich

provided a survey of the destruction caused: 101 synagogues were destroyed by fire, 86

76 demolished; 7,500 shops were demolished. Thirty-five deaths, he later added to

the debate, were to be recorded.

In the subsequent discussion, Goebbels made further suggestions: they con-

cerned the prohibition on visiting theatres, cinemas, circuses etc.; 87 the Reich Deprivation of Rights and Forced Emigration, late 1937–9

115

railways were to install special compartments for Jews; Jewish pupils were to be

removed from general schools. Goebbels also demanded a decree ‘that Jews should

be forbidden to visit German swimming pools, beach pools, and German sana-

toriums’. They should ‘consider whether it might not be necessary to forbid Jews

entering German forests. Today Jews are running in packs around the Grunewald

[in Berlin]. That’s a constant provocation, there are constant incidents . . . And

then that the Jews can’t sit around in German parks.’

Finally Heydrich brought the discussion back to the ‘basic problem’, the

question of ‘getting the Jews to leave Germany’. Heydrich referred in detail to

the experiences they had had with the ‘Jewish Emigration Centre’ in Vienna, and

suggested the creation of a similar institution for the whole of the Reich. Goering

agreed with this suggestion.

Next Heydrich suggested an ‘Emigration operation for the Jews in the rest of

the Reich’, which should stretch over ‘at least 8–10 years’. In this period one of the

chief problems was the ‘proletarianization of the remaining Jews’, which was

already under way; the Jews should be allowed to practise certain occupations.

To be able to keep an eye on the Jews still remaining in Germany, according to

Heydrich, they should be identified by a badge. (‘A uniform’, Goering added.) On

the other hand, Heydrich considered unrealistic Goering’s suggestion of ghetto-

izing the Jews: the ‘control of the Jews by the watchful eye of the population as a

whole’ was the better way.

The fact that the suggestion of large-scale emigration of the German Jews was

generally positively received at the meeting was the crucial step for Heydrich and

the SD to assume the leading role in future Judenpolitik. The development by the

‘Jewish department’ of a comprehensive plan of expulsion secured in terms of

both domestic and foreign policy now had the chance of being declared the

official policy of the ‘Third Reich’. In contrast it became apparent that Goebbels

still clung to the concept of total segregation for the Jewish minority, without his

being able to integrate this within an overall plan for a ‘solution’ of the ‘Jewish

question’.

Finally Goering made the following fundamental statement about the future of

Judenpolitik: ‘If, in the near future, the German Reich should come into conflict with

foreign powers, it goes without saying that we in Germany should first of all let it

come to a showdown with the Jews. Besides that, the FĂŒhrer will now take the

initiative with those foreign powers which have brought the Jewish question up, in

order to deal with the Madagascar project. He explained it all to me on 9 November.

There is no other way. He will say to the other countries, “Why are you always talking

about the Jews?—Take them!” ’

Just four weeks after this remarkable meeting, on 6 December Goering held a

further major discussion with the Gauleiters, Reich Governors, and OberprÀsi-

denten, in which he set out the latest guidelines on Judenpolitik that ‘the FĂŒhrer’

had explained to him in a conversation a few days before. 88

116

Racial Persecution, 1933–1939

At the meeting Goering particularly stressed Hitler’s decision ‘that all decrees to

be passed on the “Jewish question” are to be examined by me’. However, Hitler did

not want Goering’s new role to be publicly revealed, since ‘in my present position I

would be too compromised both at home and abroad’. Elsewhere he stressed that

he actually wanted ‘nothing to do with the whole Jewish question. But then of

course I don’t know how I am to keep my Four-Year Plan, the German economy,

in order.’

The most important aspect of the further development of Judenpolitik lay in

‘vigorously forcing emigration’. Goering discussed the plans pursued by Austrian

Economics Minister Fischböck and Schacht to make emigration possible through

international loans and a large-scale basic agreement, and analysed individual

aspects of the plan, which had already been authorized by Hitler.

The ‘Aryanization’ of Jewish property was to take place gradually and in a

controlled form. Goering expressly warned against a complete expropriation of

German Jews, since, in the event of renewed reprisals, the regime would then be

forced to go beyond economic measures: ‘If—God forbid—any of you or another

prominent man were got at by the Jew, the Jew knows that things would come

thundering down on him in quite a different way. Then if he has no more goods to

lose, he knows how he can be got at.’

Goering went on to reveal a series of concrete decisions made by Hitler with

regard to Judenpolitik. According to these, Jews were not to be labelled; 89 no prohibitions were to be introduced for selling to Jews; a Judenbann (ban on entry

by Jews) could be introduced in particular localities. On the ghetto question

Goering commented in general terms that ‘the Jews would somehow finally be

brought together in certain residential districts’.

Goering then revealed his intention of continuing to treat at least some of the

German Jews as hostages: ‘Of course we will retain a certain category of Jews.

Certain Jews, whom I could very easily allow to

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