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say. What do you expect us to do if we quit our trade, as you call itā ā€”go into Walla Walla or Ouachita and give ourselves up? I might lose more than my right hand at Ouachita this timeā ā€”that was just on suspicion.ā€

ā€œOr Atla-Hi,ā€ I added meaningfully. ā€œAre you expecting us to admit weā€™re murderers when we get to Atla-Hi, Pop?ā€

The old geezer smiled and thinned his eyes. ā€œNow that wouldnā€™t accomplish much, would it? Most places theyā€™d just string you up, maybe after tickling your pain nerves a bit, or if it was Manteno they might put you in a cage and feed you slops and pray over you, and would that help you or anybody else? If a man or woman quits killing thereā€™s a lot of things heā€™s got to straighten outā ā€”first his own mind and feelings, next heā€™s got to do what he can to make up for the murders heā€™s doneā ā€”help the next of kin if any and so onā ā€”then heā€™s got to carry the news to other killers who havenā€™t heard it yet. Heā€™s got no time to waste being hanged. Believe me, heā€™s got work lined up for him, work thatā€™s got to be done mostly in the Deathlands, and itā€™s the sort of work the city squares canā€™t help him with one bit, because they just donā€™t understand us murderers and what makes us tick. We have to do it ourselves.ā€

ā€œHey, Pop,ā€ I cut in, getting a little interested in the argument (there wasnā€™t anything else to get interested in until we got to Atla-Hi or Pop let down his guard), ā€œI dig you on the city squares (I call ā€™em cultural queers) and what sort of screwed-up fatheads they are, but just the same for a man to quit killing heā€™s got to quit lone-wolfing it. Heā€™s got to belong to a community, heā€™s got to have a culture of some sort, no matter how disgusting or nutsy.ā€

ā€œWell,ā€ Pop said, ā€œdonā€™t us Deathlanders have a culture? With customs and folkways and all the rest? A very tight little culture, in fact. Nutsy as all get out, of course, but thatā€™s one of the beauties of it.ā€

ā€œOh sure,ā€ I granted him, ā€œbut itā€™s a culture based on murder and devoted wholly to murder. Murder is our way of life. That gets your argument nowhere, Pop.ā€

ā€œCorrection,ā€ he said. ā€œOr rather, reinterpretation.ā€ And now for a little while his voice got less old-man harsh and yet bigger somehow, as if it were more than just Pop talking. ā€œEvery culture,ā€ he said, ā€œis a way of growth as well as a way of life, because the first law of life is growth. Our Deathland culture is devoted to growing through murder away from murder. Thatā€™s my thought. Itā€™s about the toughest way of growth anybody was ever asked to face up to, but itā€™s a way of growth just the same. A lot bigger and fancier cultures never could figure out the answer to the problem of war and killingā ā€”we know that, all right, we inhabit their grandest failure. Maybe us Deathlanders, working with murder every day, unable to pretend that it isnā€™t part of every one of us, unable to put it out of our minds like the city squares doā ā€”maybe us Deathlanders are the ones to do that little job.ā€

ā€œBut hell, Pop,ā€ I objected, getting excited in spite of myself, ā€œeven if we got a culture here in the Deathlands, a culture that can grow, it ainā€™t a culture that can deal with repentant murderers. In a real culture a murderer feels guilty and confesses and then he gets hanged or imprisoned a long time and that squares things for him and everybody. You need religion and courts and hangmen and screws and all the rest of it. I donā€™t think itā€™s enough for a man just to say heā€™s sorry and go around glad-handing other killersā ā€”that isnā€™t going to be enough to wipe out his sense of guilt.ā€

Pop squared his eyes at mine. ā€œAre you so fancy that you have to have a sense of guilt, Ray?ā€ he demanded. ā€œCanā€™t you just see when somethingā€™s lousy? A sense of guiltā€™s a luxury. Of course itā€™s not enough to say youā€™re sorryā ā€”youā€™re going to have to spend a good part of the rest of your life making up for what youā€™ve doneā ā€Šā ā€¦ and what you will do, too! But about hanging and prisonsā ā€”was it ever proved those were the right thing for murderers? As for religion nowā ā€”some of us whoā€™ve quit killing are religious and a lot of us (me included) arenā€™t; and some of the ones that are religious figure (maybe because thereā€™s no way for them to get hanged) that theyā€™re damned eternallyā ā€”but that doesnā€™t stop them doing good work. I ask you now, is any little thing like being damned eternally a satisfactory excuse for behaving like a complete rat?ā€

That did it, somehow. That last statement of Popā€™s appealed so much to me and was completely crazy at the same time, that I couldnā€™t help warming up to him. Donā€™t get me wrong, I didnā€™t really fall for his line of chatter at all, but I found it fun to go along with itā ā€”so long as the plane was in this shuttle situation and we had nothing better to do.

Alice seemed to feel the same way. I guess any bugger that could kid religion the way Pop could got a little silver star in her books. Bronze, anyway.

Right away the atmosphere got easier. To start with we asked Pop to tell us about this ā€œusā€ he kept mentioning and he said it was some dozens (or hundredsā ā€”nobody had accurate figures) of killers whoā€™d quit and went nomading around the Deathlands trying to recruit others and help those who wanted to be helped. They had semipermanent meeting places where they tried to get together at prearranged dates, but mostly they kept on the go, by twos and threes orā ā€”more rarelyā ā€”alone. They were

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